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Post by Siamanti on Jan 30, 2011 0:47:43 GMT 10
Hi there,
I found this great forum after doing some research for shoulder injuries. My boy Niles started limping heavily on his left leg about two weeks ago and I took him to the vet who diagnosed a should muscle injury. He put Niles on metacam and the limp has certainly gone better. He seems to put full weight on both legs now but I can see that any turning is still uncomfortable for him. Niles has been off metacam after a week. On Wednesday the silly boy tried his usual mad running routine in the garden and came back holding his left leg up again. This was three days ago and I have put him on metacam again for the last two days as instructed by my vet. He now puts weight on his leg again and only displays a hardly noticeable limp. Turning still seems to be uncomfortable though. I don't want to keep him on metacam for longer than I need and the vet says the next option would be an x-ray of the shoulder. There are no greyhound vets anywhere near me and as Niles almost faints as soon as he sees a vet, I don't really fancy him being x-rayed unless absolutely necessary. I can't detect any swellings on the shoulder, nor do the muscles feel different on either side. I am keeping Niles strictly on the lead now but I wondered how long before an injury like this fully heals and when should I consider an x-ray? He eats normally and seems otherwise happy. Niles is 5 and half years old and he has had shoulder problems before limping but they usually improved after 5 or six days of rest. Unfortunately a complete rest is very difficult to achieve as there are steps all over the place where I live and even though I try to lift him whenever possible (he is 35kg) he does slowly climb a few steps each day.
Any advice would be very welcome!
Thanks for your time!
Siamanti
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jan 30, 2011 7:18:46 GMT 10
Hi Siamanti,
To diagnose the reason for a greyhound limping can be difficult; however as a general rule greyhounds do not limp severely as a result of a muscle injury, but generally only because of bone or ligament damage.
The only exclusion to this that exists, is when a greyhound tears the top of the thigh muscle (lateral Vastus) they have a pronounced limp in a hind leg.
Even greyhounds that have an obvious torn muscle in a shoulder just walk a little gingerly but do not have a pronounced limp.
The most common reasons for a greyhound limping on a front leg starting from the ground up are:
Pad damage such as a foreign object in a pad or a deep seated corn. (Limping severely only on rough or hard surfaces)
Ligament or bone damage to a toe or toe joint. (Limping severely only on rough or hard surfaces)
Damage to one of the Metacarpal bones. (Limping severely for some time after exercise)
Damage to the joint structure of the wrist, this can include:
Severely sprained wrist ligaments. (Limping severely for some time after exercise)
Fracture of the stopper bone or torn flexor tendons. (Limping all the time)
A fracture in one of the small group of bones in the wrist directly above the Metacarpal bones and below the two bones of the front leg, the Radius and Ulna. This generally involves damage to the Scapho-Lunar bone just below the Radius which is the main long bone at the front of the leg, and may involve a bone chip breaking off and lodging within the wrist joint. (Limping all the time)
A fracture in the lower end of the Ulna bone, generally in the thinner part of the bone at the side of the hollow formed by the edge of the Ulna, the stopper bone, and flexor tendons. (Limping intermittently until healed)
Arthritis in the wrist joint due to past damage of the surfaces of the various bones that form the wrist joint. (Limping severely all the time after strenuous exercise, the limping may persist for weeks and be aggravated by further exercise)
Elbow joint: this area is generally fairly stable; however ligament or bone damage and/or arthritis will cause severe limping after exercise.
Shoulder joint: this is the area where the top of the Humerus joins the base of the shoulder blade (the Scapula). Damage in this area is also common and generally involves damage to the ligaments that hold the joint stable and/or damage to the joint cartilage. Any damage to this area will cause severe limping that slowly comes good until aggravated by exercise.
The shoulder blade (Scapula): The most common damage in this area is a fracture in the bony ridge that acts to strengthen the blade (Spine of the Scapula) and to act as an attachment point for some of the muscles of the shoulder. A fracture in this ridge will cause severe limping until the fracture heals.
Extremely severe muscle spasms in the base of the neck where they join the top of the shoulder blade, or in the upper part of the spine between the shoulder blades, can in some instances cause intermittent limping after exercise in one of the front limbs, but problems in this area are generally most obvious due to difficulties when the dog is trying to either get up or lay down, rather than by limping.
So as you can see the reasons for a greyhound (or any other breed of dog for that matter) limping on a front leg are many and varied, and it is only after carefully examining all of these areas that the cause of the limping can be correctly diagnosed and the correct treatment instigated, as the treatment varies considerably depending on the cause.
To make the diagnoses more difficult it is extremely common for a greyhound with a wrist injury that is causing severe limping, to also suffer from a muscle spasm in the base of the neck or the upper spine due to trying to run while minimising the pressure on the sore wrist, and the muscle spasms in either area will cause severe pain in the muscles of the shoulder when these muscles are pressed.
Bone fractures require complete rest for up to six weeks.
Ligament damage requires stimulating with a strong liniment to trigger a healing response and also require complete rest for up to four weeks after the completion of any treatments.
Arthritis requires the dosing with an anti-inflammatory drug for up to two weeks whenever it flares up and causes pain.
Muscle spasms require heat treatment with a hot pack or hot towel, gentle massaging and the application of gentle liniments for up to two weeks.
While none of the above listed causes can be ruled out without careful examination of the greyhound, past experience indicates to me that the most likely cause of the limping is some type of wrist joint damage, coupled by a painful spasm in the upper spine between the shoulder blades.
My suggestion to you would be to carefully examine the boy’s wrist including fully flexing and rotating the wrist firmly. To then hold the wrist at a ninety degree angle to the forearm and by placing the tip of a thumb in the hollow at the back of the wrist on top of the stopper bone firmly push the stopper bone towards the toes.
Any severe pain or no pain at all on doing all of this will at least either confirm or rule out the wrist as the cause of the limping.
I hope the above information is of some use to you.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by Siamanti on Jan 30, 2011 9:22:38 GMT 10
Dear Tom,
thank you very much for your detailed answer. It is much appreciated. As you suggested I examined Niles's wrist carefully and I did not get any pain reaction from him at all, nor does there seem to be any restriction of movement. (This could be due to him being on metacam) I have however noticed that Niles does show some reaction when I examine his fifth toe. I did mention this to the vet before because I initially believed that this was the problem until the vet said it was shoulder related when doing movement to the shoulder. The vet did say, however that there was an old racing injury on the toe that was arthritic. Over the last few days the limp has improved a lot and Niles now walks pretty much normally at least as far as my untrained eye can see. It does look a little gingerly to me though and I wonder if that is the metacam masking the pain. I firmly believe (from experience) that the area where I live in the UK lacks greyhound expertise as far as vets are concerned, so I am unsure as to how to proceed. I know there are better vets up north who specialize in greyhounds but I can't get there until the week after next due to work not allowing me the time off. Do you think it is safe to try and keep Niles on metacam for another week, continue massages and rest and then reassess the situation, or should I get my vet here to x-ray his shoulder as soon as possible?
Let me stress that Niles does not seem in major discomfort and a close friend who has had greyhounds all her life, says she would be very surprised if there was a fracture as he puts full weight on both front legs when he sees us and tries to jump up without any major showing of pain (let me assure you we are trying to stop him each time when he tries to show any excitement at present). I love my boy and only want what is best for him but I have very little confidence in all the vets (through bad experiences) in this area.
I am sorry to go on a bit here but I do not want to make a rash decision as I did five years ago when I allowed a so called expert vet to operate on my last greyhound with a slipped disc, only to find him becoming paralyzed and having to be put to sleep.
I still miss that dog awfully and do not want Niles to have to go through any similar distress.
Thanks so much for your reply,again!
Siamanti
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jan 30, 2011 10:53:25 GMT 10
Hi Siamanti,
I’m pleased that your boy is showing signs of improvement, and I don’t have any problems with you continuing the Metacam treatment for another week, and assessing his condition during the next fourteen days after that.
If you can keep him as quiet as possible during this time, and I know that’s not easy LOL, I have no doubt you will find his condition much improved, as this will allow some more healing time for whatever was causing the limping.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by Siamanti on Jan 30, 2011 20:58:55 GMT 10
Thank you so much for your reply. Would you know anyone in the south of England, or further afield that I could go to with Niles, should he still be sore after that time?
Many thanks again!
Siamanti
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Post by Sharon on Oct 13, 2011 11:28:23 GMT 10
My 10 year old greyhound was diagnosed with bone cancer two months ago. This came to light as a result of an xray due to a limp in his back leg. He races like crazy in our back yard. He has been on rimadyl since and he seems perfectly fine. The emergency vet advised we "put him down immediately." He seems so happy and healthy. Could the diagnosis be wrong?
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Post by Tom Meulman on Oct 13, 2011 22:16:21 GMT 10
Hi Sharon,
This is tough one to provide any definite answer to without being able to examine the greyhound or without the benefit of the X-rays the Vet used to make the diagnosis.
However most bone cancers are in the form of a tumour that gradually get larger and causes a great deal of pain, these may be malignant or benign.
The malignant tumours spread rapidly, cause severe pain, and often develop a very painful lump on the bone. Even a benign tumour while it spreads more slowly can still cause pain and intermittent limping, and in particularly a malignant tumour can weaken the bone to the extent that “racing around the yard” could lead to a broken bone.
Having said that, if your boy is still happy and healthy, and IF there is a bone cancer tumour in the leg, it is highly likely that it is in fact a small benign tumour, as these can grow so slowly that they become surrounded by sound bone formation maintaining bone strength, and therefore with Rimadyl to relieve any pain I can certainly see no reason to have him “put down immediately” as the Vet so crudely put it.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by Sharon on Oct 14, 2011 12:45:19 GMT 10
Thanks Tom, I am just hoping the diagnosis is wrong..... Tk seems so happy and is actually quite normal. He no longer races around as we keep him on a leash and take him for walks; no more racing around the yard as he loved to do. I will keep checking this board to see if anyone else ever had a similar experience. We have had 3 greyhounds and lost one to cancer.
Sharon
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Post by Matt on Mar 9, 2014 8:59:35 GMT 10
Hi I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions - I've read the above and I wondered if I could just ask this as we're all really distressed at the moment:
We have a 10 year old (Cait) who's a delight and about 2 months ago wasn't herself, lack of appetite and interest in anyone. She then developed a limp which seemed to coincide with managing to squeeze past a baby gate on our stairs. The vet suggested arthritis and put her on anti-inflammatories for 10 days but after no improvement x-rayed her (at the same time as removing 6 teeth). The x-ray showed only mild arthritis but no sign of bone tumours but due to declining appetite and increasing pain the vet has put her on steroids. Another week later the pain seems to have gotten worse and we're now having to carry Cait between rooms and take her outside to go to the toilet. She's refusing to eat much at all although today I managed to get her to eat some marmite on toast, chocolate milk (just to get something in her) and this evening some liver. She doesn't seem to be able to get comfortable even lying down and we're taking her to the vet again on Monday but we're at a loss to know what to do? I've read really negative discussions which suggest that unexplained limps are nearly always osteosarcoma and we're not sure if we need to insist on further x-rays or if we are being cruel by keeping her alive when she's so miserable. I'd really appreciate any thoughts on this.
Matt
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Post by Tom Meulman on Mar 9, 2014 19:25:28 GMT 10
Hi Matt,
Mate I am so very very sorry to hear that your Cait appears to be in such pain that it is causing her enough distress that it has affected her wanting to eat, and that it has taken away her ability to move about.
Regardless of the actual cause, and for it to affect her will to eat it is obviously affecting her will to live, the causing illness will be severe, and unfortunately the chances of a recovery to the extent that she will be happy again and free of pain at her age is really nonexistent.
This is undoubtedly one of those times that comes in the life of just about everyone when we know that we are going to have to part with someone we love and deeply care for, and damn it, it hurts.
It becomes even more painfull when that someone we love is such a close companion and friend as a greyhound can be, and we are the one that has to make the decision to put that friend to sleep forever.
But then what is the alternative? To watch her suffer in such severe pain for who knows what length of time when we as their carer can aliviate it?
Mate I really feel for you and those that care so much about Cait, and I know what you are going through, as I have also been there.
I wish you strength,
Tom
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Post by Dawn on Nov 11, 2014 21:01:28 GMT 10
Hello
I have a 7 year old ex racer who is limping on her front right leg and on her shoulder, there has been a lump which trembles and spasms. She did think running madly around the garden as greyhounds do about 5 weeks ago. I have been to the vets twice and he has given her antinflammatories and anti biotics and all seemed to be healing nicely until we walked her yesterday (not far) and now the limp has come back. The vet doesn't seem to know what it wrong and suggested an xray as the next step, can you advise in any way? I do live in France so am having to deal the a language problem as well, not being very good with medical terms in french! Thank you for any assistance/advice you can offer.
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Post by Kari on Nov 12, 2014 6:06:23 GMT 10
Hi! I've read this thread with hope and heartache, even knowing this thread is old and many of these loved ones are either recovered or at the Rainbow Bridge. My own Jack is 13, though he thinks he's 2. He's never had any majors injuries or illnesses, and I hike with Jack and Samantha (12) daily. Jack has had a severe, constant limp in his front left leg for about a month. We figured it was a muscle pull or something like that because he continues to want to run and play, and he has had no loss of appetite. We thought it would heal quickly, but he seems to continue to aggravate it. So now we are trying to keep him off it as much as possible, massaging and rubbing in arnica ointment, and giving him Traumeel. I've doubled his glucosamine, and he also takes condroitin, MSM, vitamin C, several herbs, and probiotics. He is on a raw food diet. When we massage, we are not finding any one spot that causes pain, he enjoys the massage immensely, and he only winces once in a while if we massage too hard. We are a 3-hour drive from the vet, and we have not taken him in for an exam. He does seem to be in some pain once in a while, and it seems to be relieved by massage. He has not really gotten better or worse, and I'm hoping that forcing rest will finally allow it to heal.
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Post by Tom Meulman on Nov 12, 2014 7:12:29 GMT 10
Hi Dawn,
In most instances a lump or swollen area that trembles and spasms is an area of muscle damage, and again in most instances, this will include an area where there is some torn muscle tissue.
This type of injury can take 6 weeks to heal and then quite often develops scar tissue that because it is tight and does not stretch can cause intermittent pain when the leg where the damage is stretches forwards.
If you can find the area where the swelling was I'm sure you will find harder sections of muscle tissue that would benefit immensely from having either Hirudoit or Lasonil cream rubbed into it daily for 14 days as either of these products will soften scar tissue, will make using the leg more comfortable, and should reduce the intermittent limping she is likely to suffer from as a result of that injury.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by Tom Meulman on Nov 12, 2014 8:27:56 GMT 10
Hi Kari, It is so frustrating when you know your boy or girl has an injury as demonstrated by the fact that they are limping, and no one can put their finger on the exact cause. That makes treating the problem virtually impossible as often that only leaves the option of putting them on an anti inflammatory pain killer and the hope that the injury whatever it is will heal itself. It is surprising just how often a limping problem turns out to be a small glass sliver in a toe pad or a corn in a pad that has been missed in seeking the cause of the limping. Keep in mind that to find a small glass sliver in a pad where the entry opening has healed over takes very careful examination with pressure placed on each section of each pad individually. Even finding a corn can take a very careful examination with a magnifying glass as in most instances they only show up as a small round slightly raised shiny harder area in the pad that may or may not have a black dot in the centre. So as far as I'm concerned regardless of what has gone before having another good look at the pads on the foot of the leg being limped on is certainly worthwhile. In fact having a good look at the pads of the opposite leg is also worthwhile as you would be surprised just how often I have had clients come in with a limping greyhound, and the problem turned out to be in the leg opposite to the one they thought the dog was limping on. The next most common reason for a greyhound limping is damage to one of the toe joints, in particular the top joint of the left most toe on any of the four legs. Easy enough to check simply by bending the toe back under the foot and exerting very very slight pressure. Any other toe joints having been injured will show as a slightly more "nobbly" joint that will be painful if the toe is straightened out. The next most likely spot is the ligaments and bone surfaces of the stopper bone on the front legs, best checked by bending the wrist to 90 degrees and then putting downwards pressure on the stopper bone by placing a thumb in the hollow above the stopper bone and pressing down firmly. Then the wrist joint itself, best checked by fully bending it back towards the back of the forearm and forcing it slightly further than is goes back comfortably with only just light pressure. The reason. I have mentioned all this is because it is uncommon for a greyhound to limp as a result of a muscle injury unless that injury involves a torn muscle which always shows as a soft swollen area as can often happen in a shoulder, or as a result of what in humans would be described as a cork thigh. All other causes generally involve bone damage or ligament damage. If the cause is bone or ligament damage this usually requires a minimum of 4 weeks up to 6 weeks on the lead without free running for healing to take place. Cheers, Tom PS. Jack is a very lucky boy getting a regular massage as all greyhounds love having that done.  |
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Post by Dawn on Nov 12, 2014 17:00:24 GMT 10
Thanks Tom
I've looked up both suggestions and we can get Hirudiod over here, so off to the chemist this morning. We are convinced its muscle as the vet can't find anything wrong such as broken bones etc. Apart from the limp and the swelling, she is eating as normal and is her normal self.
Appreciate your advice, will let you know how it goes, thank you again. Dawn
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Post by Dawn on Nov 12, 2014 19:58:22 GMT 10
Hello again Tom
Tried the chemist, you cannot purchase Hirudoid or Lasonil here, despite what I found out on the internet! I can get it in the UK and then bought over but this will take several days, could we use ibuprofen gel for the time being? I know it is dangerous if swallowed by dogs, but in a gel state if she cannot lick it? Should we also be applying cold as well to the swelling?
Again, thanks for any help.
Kind regards
Dawn
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Post by Kari on Nov 13, 2014 7:09:25 GMT 10
Thank you so much, Tom! After fresh examination as you described, there doesn't seem to be any issue with toes or wrist. I'm leaning toward a ligament issue. When I press down on the stopper bone, he doesn't whine or wince, but he does get muscle spasms across his ribs. He does whine sometimes with strong massage on the neck, but that may be due to sore neck muscles from all the limping.
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Post by Tom Meulman on Nov 13, 2014 16:30:56 GMT 10
Hi Dawn,
Any anti inflammatory gel or cream will do for the time being, as at least that will reduce the formation of scar tissue. At this late stage the application of cold packs is no longer going to be beneficial.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by Tom Meulman on Nov 13, 2014 16:41:19 GMT 10
Hi Kari,
Well it was worth a try, but then ligament damage in the wrist can certainly be a cause of limping and massaging the back of the wrist, the ligaments around the stopper bone as well as the lower part of the forearm should help to alleviate pain and muscle spasms in the area and stimulate healing.
In regard to muscle spasms; any muscle spasms in the base of the neck will certainly cause pain down the outside of the shoulder and into the wrist joint. So to massage the base of the neck with the greyhound standing as well as taking in the saddle muscles can certainly be beneficial.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by Kari on Nov 14, 2014 1:23:54 GMT 10
Excellent! Thanks again, Tom! We will expand our massage areas and continue that as often as possible. We have noticed that massage does alleviate the muscle spasms, and he does seem to be pain free and much more relaxed after massaging. I may have an opportunity to get him into the vet next week for an evaluation.
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