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chase
Mar 18, 2016 15:17:32 GMT 10
Post by bill on Mar 18, 2016 15:17:32 GMT 10
Hi Tom need some advice from your vast experience and knowledge in the greyhound industry. With all the new changes that have been introduced by GRV in the last year mainly the one only being aloud to use artificial skins to teach dogs to chase.If you where training dogs today what method would you use to keep your race dogs keen chases. Also Tom when pups come back from breakers their still not chasing 100%, what would you do if they where your pups to finish off teaching them to chase very keenly.Your thoughts and opinion would be very much appreciated as this is becoming a very important part of training to learn.THANK YOU
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chase
Mar 19, 2016 19:12:05 GMT 10
Post by Tom Meulman on Mar 19, 2016 19:12:05 GMT 10
Hi Bill,
Mate you have asked a question that would take four foolscap pages to answer, as it requires as many different variations as there are greyhound personalities, and yes every greyhound has a slightly different personality and a slightly different reaction to types of stimulation.
It's just not possible for me to provide the required advice in enough detail to cover all the various scenarios.
There again if pup is not chasing keenly after supposedly having been broken in, the person that is supposed to have done the job has not done so, and no mater what they pretend to be, are in fact incompetent. This makes it extremely difficult to then fix whatever has been put in the dogs mind.
While I did build a breaking in complex and operated this for around nine years, I personally would not be able to send a pup away to someone to get broken in as I have over the years seen far too many greyhounds virtually destroyed by uncaring incompetent operators and would have to do the job myself. To be quite honest I'm also abhorred by the current practice of sending young dogs virtually direct from the breakers to a so called pre-trainer. Again too many greyhounds are damaged that have managed to get through the breaking-in process in one piece and are declared simply not fast enough.
Basics...............only Firstly, the most common reason that pups do not learn to chase properly is because no one bothers to make them want to chase by spending sufficient time teasing them with something designed to stimulate their interest.
So now only artificiall lures are allowed, so what? That should not be a problem when you can go to something like a Spotlight store and buy any amount of artificial furs that look better than the real thing.
So you have to cut some of it into thin strips, bundle them all together at one end with a few cable ties to make a lure that is fluffy, flaps around, and is fun to pull bits off and destroy. When you have made something suitable, zip it past the yard or kennel the dog is in on the end of a piece of cord back and forward quickly until the dog shows a bit of interest and maybe let it pluck a few strands off it through the wire fence of the yard. Then walk away with the lure dragging it behind you until out of sight. Repeat every second day for three days, then let the dog have an actual grab at it in the yard and play tug of war for a few minutes, but take it away again quickly. Zip it up and down back on the other side of the fence again a couple of times.to make sure the dogs is back wanting it again.
Always keep in mind the old truism "what you can't have is what you want the most", and there is no doubt that with many people the opposite also applies, and that is what you get too easily you do not appreciate.
The very same principle applies to getting a greyhound to chase keenly.
Then when the dogs gets to the stage of really keenly wanting to grab whatever you have used as a lure, then tie this on the lure arm at a trial track, and simply slip the dog onto it by only letting them chase it for no more than five metres, and letting them grab it. Allow them to be pulled along for around two metres with the lure, put the collar and lead back on, pull the dog off the lure, and allow it to watch the lure being driven out of sight to the other side of the track, and take the dog back home to its kennel.
Three days later do the same thing again only this time let the dog chase the lure for twenty metres, finishing with the same procedure.
Then providing the dogs seems keen another three days later, again slip it behind the lure, but this time take them three quarters around the track, allowing it to grab the lure and pull them along for around five metres where by this time you would have got to that spot to put the lead and collar back on and take the dog back home.
You are now part of the way towards getting the dog to chase a bit keener, and if you think about it I have no doubt you will see how to proceed from this point on and maintain the keenness to chase the lure.
Eventually adding a squeaky toy in there somewhere along the line can also help the overall situation. It is however extremely important that when you have built a picture in the dogs mind of what it is chasing, and it enjoys chasing this, never ever disappoint it by allowing it to grab the lure that does not have what the dog expects to be there.
Cheers, Tom
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chase
Mar 20, 2016 8:05:52 GMT 10
Post by Tom Meulman on Mar 20, 2016 8:05:52 GMT 10
Just further to the above.
I know a lot of people reading what I wrote about getting a dog to chase hard are going to say "but my dog chases all the way around the track, comes out of the boxes and goes around with other dogs. So I don't see much sense in doing all that."
All I can say to that is; if the dog is not chasing genuinely and does not run to the very best of its ability, it is not turned onto the lure properly, and this is about the only morally correct and legal way of doing so.
Two dogs bump in a race, one appears to be severely checked while the other one keeps right on chasing. Guess which of those two dogs is chasing the hardest?
As far as I'm concerned you should be able to put a dish full of food in front of a starting box, place the dog in the starting box, bring the lure around, and the dog should jump over the dish full of food to chase the lure.
Cheers, Tom
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chase
Mar 22, 2019 7:23:57 GMT 10
Post by Ronan on Mar 22, 2019 7:23:57 GMT 10
Hi Tom, this is the first time I have commented on your website but I am hoping I can add my current experience with a young dog here in Ireland. I was gifted an exceptional brindle pup at 6weeks old from superb coursing parents. In the process of rearing and training the pup his appetite and speed was insatiable and I could not put enough game in front of this pup at 10 months old he just wanted more. Until one day, he stopped. He walked up to a squatting rabbit, turned, and just walked back to me. I had broken him at exactly 10 1/2 months old and this rabbit was one of the easiest of all those he had seen.
I went completely back to basics. I kept him in the pen for three days and only occassionally touched his nose as I walked past. On the fourth day I got a fur (from the last rabbit he caught) and tied it to a jig pole. On the first jig session he was so-so about it. Now after 2 weeks his only training each day is up and down a grass bank with the jig pole and he is crazy for it! His prey drive and now bite drive has never been as good, and to think all I am doing is treating him like a pup and playing with him in the way a young lad would do his pet. He gets his road walking but I keep his galloping for the jig pole.
So I will not try him on wild live game until he is over 2, I have learned a valuable lesson and now trying to re-program a pup which I have honestly sickened through perhaps only 4 of the latest misses after 22 wild rabbits caught beforehand over a period of 6 weeks. I always say the last rabbit is the one that did it.
So if anyone has had there heart broken with a non-chaser please try the jig pole / flirt pole. I actually turned to the military close protection dog training manual for this one and it works absolute wonders! So far.
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chase
Mar 22, 2019 7:28:16 GMT 10
Post by Ronan on Mar 22, 2019 7:28:16 GMT 10
I would also like to add that after 5 mins of using the jig pole especially with a soft grass bank involved both dog and handler are absolutely knackered! So it gives me confidence knowing how he is feeling that even with this small exercise his training regime is not being neglected. There other I do also is change what is on the jig pole. Sometimes a wild rabbit fur and other times a soft squeaky toy but the one that sends him crazy is a brown child's teddy bear. He is now a completely different animal.
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chase
Mar 22, 2019 14:39:02 GMT 10
Post by Tom Meulman on Mar 22, 2019 14:39:02 GMT 10
Hi Ronan,
Thanks for your input as teasing young dogs with a fluffy skin or a squeaky toy in a certain manner such as with a jig pole certainly makes them keener to chase the lure.
Just keep in mind that here in Australia the use of any live game wild or not is against the law and anyone doing this would be likely to finish up with huge fine and or a jail sentence. They would also be deregistered by the controlling state greyhound racing authority and lose their ability to train racing greyhounds.
Cheers, Tom
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chase
Mar 22, 2019 23:34:52 GMT 10
Post by Ronan on Mar 22, 2019 23:34:52 GMT 10
My apologies, as I was driving home from work I realised I had forgotten to add probably THE most important statement in my first post. The rabbits were flushed out to the pup while hunting, an area where rabbits are legally flushed with a ferret and have to cross rolled improved grassland which is perfect for the greyhounds impulse drive, speed to gain distance and stamina. All in a safe scenario and with full permission of the landowner.
The field has been handpicked for not legislative compliance but also in safeguarding the greyhound from broken toes, livestock and optimising the breakdown of performance required in a lesser type of coursing in a training scenario.
Apologies on not disclosing all aspects of the training programme, as I am in Ireland I took that it for granted the reader would understand.
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chase
Mar 23, 2019 4:46:12 GMT 10
Post by Tom Meulman on Mar 23, 2019 4:46:12 GMT 10
Hi Ronan,
Thanks for posting that clarification, it’s appreciated.
Cheers, Tom
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