|
Post by Lectroman on Oct 19, 2009 6:39:38 GMT 10
Hi Tom, can we plz have your thoughts on dislocated "front right outside toe" What your time frame and procedure would be. Thanx in advance
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Oct 19, 2009 10:13:41 GMT 10
Hi Lectroman,
In regard to either “sprung” toes or “dislocated” toes there is a huge difference in the eventual outcome and the ability of the dog to race relatively pain free.
In what is generally described as a SPRUNG toe, the toe joint capsule may have been severely stretched and there may be some minor ligament damage to the joint capsule, but it essentially remains intact and reasonably stable when sideways pressure is applied.
Therefore treatment such as the injection of a LOW level sclerosing agent around the joint capsule, or the application of an external liniment that increases heat to the ligaments will generally strengthen the joint sufficiently so that training can be resumed after 2 or three weeks.
Unfortunately in the case of a DISLOCATED toe the damage is generally more severe and usually results in the ligaments to one side of the joint capsule tearing away to the extent that the joint can pop open and allow the toe to move sideways at an acute angle, when sideways pressure is applied.
In this situation to effect a repair that will allow the toe to remain stable under the pressure of racing is far more difficult, and sometimes impossible to achieve.
The first point to take into consideration in that situation is which joint is actually damaged, because if it is the lower toe joint the best option may be to have the toe operated on by your Veterinarian in an operation called a P3.
What is done is remove the lower joint of the toe including the nail and nail bed, and then the toe pad is stitched in place at the end of the toe to cushion the bone. This operation usually has a better outcome if the Vet during the operation fillets out the toe ligament of the lower section and fixes it in place to avoid it shrinking and pulling back up the wrist.
In most instances this operation when done right is very successful and the dog returns to racing without any further problems.
If however the damage is to the centre or top toe joint the problem is more difficult to solve.
The best outcomes I have seen in these cases are where micro surgery is undertaken by removing the dewclaws, and the ligaments from the dewclaws are inserted in the toe to replace the torn ligaments.
Unfortunately this is an expensive procedure and then the know ability of the dog has to be taken into consideration.
In the past I have had a Veterinarian try and repair a dislocated centre joint of a toe with Carbon Fibre which resulted in the toe having to be removed eventually.
Tom
|
|
|
Post by Lectroman on Oct 19, 2009 16:27:31 GMT 10
Hi Tom, my dog had the dislocation on the higher joint toe. I have keep him on the lead for 5 weeks, while strapped and givin him 3 NatureBee capsules daily as an additive. He has improved dramatically and looks great especially after a Very light run today. Is there anything else I can do?
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Oct 19, 2009 17:59:58 GMT 10
That is an excellent result for that type of injury!
There is not a lot more that you can do at this stage, and it is a matter of seeing how well the toe is going stand up to full running pressure at the completion of the healing time.
The Naturebee capsules are certainly a good way of providing all the nutrients the dog needs to assist healing of all types of injuries.
Tom
|
|
|
Post by Lectroman on Oct 28, 2009 21:50:41 GMT 10
Hi tom
ive given him a good run today, and he's pulled up brilliant, if anything better than he was before on time ! extremely keen. Thanx for your website
|
|
|
Post by Kerryside on Nov 11, 2009 21:31:46 GMT 10
Tom, we have a dog who dislocated a centre front toe. We had it cemented and later pin fired. Apart from the fact that he removed muzzle and licked the wound it healded nicely. He was on the leash until yesterday whe we gave him a light hand gallop and all went well. We gave him a full hand gallop this morning and the toe showed signs of a little swelling. Apart from ice water any other suggestions? Kerryside
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Nov 12, 2009 3:47:28 GMT 10
Hi Kerryside,
Once the initial swelling has gone, it may be worthwhile to apply something like a DMSO cream or lotion daily for three days after each run to minimise any inflammation.
In each case it would be best to apply this just prior to walking the dog or letting it out into the yard, in order to reduce the chances of the dog licking it off before it has a chance to penetrate the area.
The only other thing to keep in mind with DMSO, is that anything that is mixed with DMSO will penetrate the body immediately, and while there has never been a positive swab to DMSO itself, any other drug such as Phenylbutazone that may be in some types of DMSO cream would certainly cause a positive swab in Australia.
Cheers, Tom
|
|
|
Post by Kerryside on Dec 4, 2009 1:42:33 GMT 10
Thanks for the info. Have started back galloping with 2 weeks. Gave him a trial last weekend and all seems ok....
|
|
|
Post by lindsay on Jan 15, 2010 13:37:46 GMT 10
Hi Kerryside, Once the initial swelling has gone, it may be worthwhile to apply something like a DMSO cream or lotion daily for three days after each run to minimise any inflammation. In each case it would be best to apply this just prior to walking the dog or letting it out into the yard, in order to reduce the chances of the dog licking it off before it has a chance to penetrate the area. The only other thing to keep in mind with DMSO, is that anything that is mixed with DMSO will penetrate the body immediately, and while there has never been a positive swab to DMSO itself, any other drug such as Phenylbutazone that may be in some types of DMSO cream would certainly cause a positive swab in Australia. Cheers, Tom Tom how much is it for you to check a dog, b 4 we buy it? and where are you based plz
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Jan 16, 2010 16:06:16 GMT 10
Hi Lindsey,
On the 1st of January the charge for thoroughly checking a greyhound and to do whatever adjustments are required went from $20 to $25.
While I’m basically retired and don’t check dogs on a regular basis anymore, I can generally fit one or two in if required.
I’m located in Narre Warren, Victoria and if you wish to get in contact my mobile phone number is 0409 212 312
Cheers, Tom
|
|
|
Post by Peter Owens on Jan 1, 2017 15:32:10 GMT 10
Our retired girl developed what I now believe should be classed as a "sprung toe" In her case it was a hind foot, second toe in. It all started with her mad flat out beach "runs" (IE showing off doing donuts ....). She would pull up & hold the paw aloft & itw as not difficult to do a relocation. Initially this was an occasional injury but within a few weeks it became regular & happened often twice in a beach outing. Google resulted in a breeders advice to use a section of bicycle rubber inner tube (off a racing bike with small diam inner tube) to make an "elastic band". I made many from 6 to 10 mm in width. So we went out with the band in place & "problem fixed" except we had to keep remembering & if we forgot the toe would spring out again. Eventually a local & very knowledgeable breeder/racer said be would "needle the toe". I think the injection given in the process was asclerosing agent, but I am not sure. Anyway we stopped forgetting & only after about 3 months did we discover (forgot again) that this time & for over a year now no more problems. I contribute this in the hope it will help others, pity I don't know what was actually injected.
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Jan 2, 2017 5:26:17 GMT 10
Hi Peter,
Great result, and I'm glad that you found someone experienced with the injuries of racing greyhounds to repair this for you.
As I have posted earlier, injecting a suitable sclerosing agent will in many instances toughen the existing ligaments and the joint capsule to the extent of solving the problem. Sclerosing substances were used predominantly in the human treatment of varicose veins to shrink and dry them out.
However it is essential that the right sclerosing agent is chosen, and that the correct minimal quantities are injected, as if this is done badly a difficult to heal sore can occur with some skin slouching off.
The most common reasonably safe substance used is called Fibrovein, with some practitioners using various strength mixtures of Ethanolamine Oleate (Ethamolin)
Cheers, Tom
|
|
|
Post by Leanne Harrington on Jun 12, 2017 9:03:25 GMT 10
Tom, you've given a good description of amount and depth for injecting a sclerosing agent for the wrist. What about for a sprung (not dislocated) toe? It's the P2/3 joint (second joint up from nail), inside front right toe.
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 12, 2017 16:15:49 GMT 10
Tom, you've given a good description of amount and depth for injecting a sclerosing agent for the wrist. What about for a sprung (not dislocated) toe? It's the P2/3 joint (second joint up from nail), inside front right toe. Hi Leanne, Very difficult to inject a sprung toe with a sclerosing agent due to the lack of tissue around the joint. Far too often this can result in what ever has been used causing a nasty wound if the wrong substance is injected or the wrong amount. I would much rather you investigated using platelet rich plasma injections for this type of injury. platelet Rich Plasma InjectionsCheers, Tom
|
|
|
Post by Leanne Harrington on Jun 13, 2017 16:06:34 GMT 10
Thanks, Tom. It's not a serious injury, just wanted to help speed healing. The costs of prp here in the states is prohibitive for amateur racing as an "elective." I'll go with a stimulating liniment and regular rest protocol.
Thanks again!
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 13, 2017 17:46:15 GMT 10
Hi Leanne,
It is more common in Aus for a vet or in some instances the trainers themselves to spin some blood of the greyhound involved, and to separate the plasma for use instead of a commercially produced sclerosing agent for injecting into suitable injuries to stimulate and speed up the healing process.
Unfortunately I have had only limited personal experience with this method and therefore can't provide knowlegable advice in regard to quantities to use for specific injuries, however as this method is more gentle than any commercial sclerosing agent there is a greater safety margin and therefore the quantity used should not be as critical.
Cheers, Tom
|
|
|
Post by Nat on Jul 17, 2018 20:33:02 GMT 10
Back left leg, inside toe dislocated half way (2nd joint?)- if right treatment is given what time frame before getting back into work
|
|
|
Post by Tom Meulman on Jul 18, 2018 4:24:02 GMT 10
Back left leg, inside toe dislocated half way (2nd joint?)- if right treatment is given what time frame before getting back into work Hi Nat, Unfortunately the recovery time depends entirely on the extent of the damage to the ligaments that hold the joint stable. Strained joint capsule, the right treatment, and the dog is back in work in a couple of weeks. Ruptured joint capsule, but with most of the ligaments still in tact, the right treatment and it will still take four weeks before the dog can gallop on the foot without pain or the possibility of doing further damage. However if the situation has occurred where the joint capsule has torn with severe ligament damage no amount of treatment will ever hold the joint stable again, and surgery may be the only option, in which case it could take six to eight weeks before the dog is ready to run behind a lure again. Cheers, Tom
|
|