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Stress
Aug 28, 2013 19:52:33 GMT 10
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Post by Mark on Aug 28, 2013 19:52:33 GMT 10
Hi Tom, thanks for showing me how to access this site and information, there is so much information at hand.
As I explained to you when I met you, I'm a very inexperienced greyhound trainer, by this i mean i have no experience at all, i was forced to bring two dogs home and undertake the training role, when i couldnt find an appropriate home/trainer for them. When the 16 month old was returned after break in, we had him thoroughly examined and a full blood profile done, his coat was very dull, he had very flakey skin, and he had unhealed sores. Antibiotics were given, and most of his levels and ranges from the blood results were within normal apart from his thyroid. He was placed on thyroxine 0.4mg tablets, 1 morning and night to correct this. He was put on science diet kibble and kennel mince for the first month then racing mince after he was in the healthy weight range, anyway after a six week rest which just included walks and free galloping, he seemed to be getting bored, so back to the vet for a full check up, and he was given the ok to start straight work with. First run over 250 went ok, heavy panting after, took a while to recover, second run over 300 a week later, he takes even longer to recover, heavy panting, won't drink. He is a very excited pup and both times there was trouble with the lure so he flipped out a bit while waiting. Now I have noticed that his breathing is more rapid when at rest in the kennels, so back to the vet, bloods done, thyroid low, vets advice 2 thyroxin morning 1 night. Looking at ur articles, stress what is it, and looking at ur greyhound, I'm now puzzled more than ever. His coat is still dull, but I can see the shiny new hair coming through in patches, skin tone good, doesn't appear dehydrated, i can sort of see blue halos in his eyes, doesn't appear to have enlarged liver. Does it sound like he is suffering from stress and what is the best way to rectify the problems, being only 18 months old how do I go about this, he difinately has time on his side, if he was your pup how would you go about getting him right before any further damage is done. Sorry for the length of this, but wanted to put in as much information as I could remember. Thanks in advance
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Stress
Aug 29, 2013 21:40:38 GMT 10
Post by Tom Meulman on Aug 29, 2013 21:40:38 GMT 10
Hi Mark,
This is where this whole situation is so damn difficult because unless the greyhound was in my personal care where I could see him every day and personally assess his behaviour both prior to a trial, immediately after a trial as well as recovery time, including checking the first urine after the run, and observing the changes in the greyhounds condition from day to day and week to week, it is impossible to provide worthwhile focused advice pertinent to your individual greyhound.
There are so many things that may appear minor, and yet they can dramatically affect a greyhound both in the short and long term.
One of the most critical items to affect a greyhound is its diet, and when you mention Science Diet and meat in the same meal as the food the greyhound is currently receiving, all I can say is that you really need to re-assess the balance of the protein and carbohydrates in the diet.
Diet has a major affect on the stress levels the greyhounds body is placed in, and not surprisingly this also has a major affect on the dogs mental state.
Even the balance of the food in regard to the portion size fed morning and night has an affect, as well as the digestibility of the food and what state it is in when it is presented to the dog can affect the value of the meal and thereby the health of the greyhound.
Yet food is only a part of what affects the well being of the greyhound,just as important is what stress levels are placed on it on a daily basis, such as the location, size, temperature, and state of the kennel facilities, as well as any interaction with other dogs and the human that look after the dog.
So the list goes on and on.
Mate you are just going to have to take your time with the dog, learn as much as you can about what affects that particular dog, and regardless of the fact that you may think the dog is getting bored, don’t run the dog behind the lure unless it shows by its physical condition that its health is good ........... and when you do take the dog for a trial if the wait is too long or the dog gets too stressed out, take him home without running him.
If anyone wants to find out just how stressful it is for a dog to bark and jump around constantly for 20 minutes should try jumping up and down while yelling at the top of their voice and see if they are in any state to go for a jog after only 2 minutes of this.
Cheers, Tom
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Stress
Aug 29, 2013 22:52:27 GMT 10
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Post by Mark on Aug 29, 2013 22:52:27 GMT 10
Thanks for your reply Tom. That's exactly what I thought when reading your articles, time to start him from scratch, can only be good in the long term. Hope all goes well with your health mate, take care.
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Stress
Aug 30, 2013 10:36:13 GMT 10
Post by Anthony on Aug 30, 2013 10:36:13 GMT 10
Hi Mark, I recently trained a very excitable greyhound as my first dog. And while ultimately nothing proved to really fix the problem, there were certain things which helped. Firstly, I found that it was very important to get the dog as fit as possible before his first run behind the lure by free running / hand slipping etc. At the start of each racing campaign I would give him at least 4 weeks of handslips/free running over 300m every second day. I did this because I found that an excitable hard chaser won't ease off when they start to get tired behind the lure. They will just run themself into the ground and it caues heaps of problems. By having the dog as fit as possible before that first run over 250-275m you minimise the chances of stress. Secondly, if the dog doesn't travel well, i.e. unless it just sits down and goes to sleep in the back of the car, take into account travel time and if there is a suitable distance available, trial the dog at the track closest to you. 2 hour car trips with a bad traveller are destined to end badly. Thirdly, book your trials to avoid waiting unnecessarily. A drink of 40ml vytrate to 500ml water after each trial did to aid recovery. Just make sure you are around a couple of hours later to let the dog out for a pee! Get regular blood tests to check red and white cell counts. In an easily stressed animal these can fluctuate quite a bit. Don't buy any products which claim to calm your dog down. I tried them all. They don't work! Look for signs of excessive feet licking, difficulty swallowing / lickling lips, shaking head, excessive stretching out (bowing). These are all signs there is something wrong in my experience. Have a good look at your dog's droppings. They should be firm and compact. Big, loose or watery stools are a sign that something is not right. Could be diet but it could also be stress. In regard's to the coat and flaky skin, a good grooming always helps as does a bit more fat content in the diet, but bad skin and coat in combination with bad droppings could be a sign of wheat sensitivity. If you can get your hand's on the Alex Hauler DVD he goes into a bit of detail about it. If your dog is aggressive or adgitated by other dogs, change his schedule to walk him at a time when you won't bump into anyone. Try and find a good muscle man / checker to look over your dog regularly and give you advice. Very hard to find since Tom has been out of action! In terms of diet and quantities, I found that if you follow Tom's general diet and then cross reference this with the quantities outlined on page 4 of this article: www.greyhoundvets.co.uk/pdf/conf%202012/Feeding%20the%20Racing%20Greyhound%20for%20Performance%20John%20Kohnke%20%20SGV%20Conference%202012.pdfthen you will probably only need to make minor adjustments to suit the needs of your individual dog. Thats all I can think of for now. Best of luck with it. It is a great feeling when you have put in the hard yards and you win a race. It can also be a very frustrating experience at times too - but I guess that is what makes the good times all the better.
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Stress
Aug 30, 2013 11:05:56 GMT 10
Post by Anthony on Aug 30, 2013 11:05:56 GMT 10
Oh and one more thing I forgot. Try not to make excuses for your dog. I was an absolute shocker for doing this. I can't remember how many times I left a trial saying "The track must be four lengths slow" or words to that effect. In hindsight, every time the dog underperformed, it was always the first sign that cracks were appearing and burying my head in the sand only made it worse.
Cheers.
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Stress
Aug 31, 2013 14:45:53 GMT 10
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Post by Mark on Aug 31, 2013 14:45:53 GMT 10
Thanks for that Anthony, some more usefull tips, the trouble is, I've been reading a lot of conflicting information, I guess it's time to focus and base my methods of conditioning on toms techniques.
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Stress
Aug 31, 2013 20:33:17 GMT 10
Post by Anthony on Aug 31, 2013 20:33:17 GMT 10
In one way, the conflicting information is understandable. As Tom mentioned, you have to get to know your dog and what works for him and what doesn't. Lots of people have written books on how to care for and train greyhounds. Unfortunately no one has written a book specifically about how to best look after yours.
But when you are starting from scratch, you need to start with a plan and some basic principles on how to care for a dog. With so many conflicting opinions, it is hard to figure out who to trust. I was in this exact position two years ago.
You would think listening to your vet would be a good starting point? Well, to some extent yes. Vets are an integral part of the team that looks after your dog's health and well being. But ask yourself how many vets have trained a City Winner?
Treat very wearily the information you receive from random people on internet forums (I do recognise the irony of this statement!). A lot of people have agendas in offering you help and advice. Just as many people will offer you bad advice despite their good intentions (for all I know I might fall into this category). You will also figure out very quickly that trying to form an opinion of one's ability or expertise (be it a muscle man, a vet a trainer)based on internet recommendations is very dangerous. No one writes about the incompetence of particular people on internet forums, they're too afraid. The only way you will hear that sort of stuff is by talking to other trainers. And in saying that, I'd limit my conversations to those trainers whose record speaks for itself.
Personally, I think Tom is a genius when it comes to dogs, but you don't have to take my word for it. His record speaks for itself. You won't go wrong using his methods as a starting point to figure out what works and what doesn't work for your dog.
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