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Post by Andross on Jul 31, 2013 16:00:44 GMT 10
Hi Tom,
Wow this is a great site i didnt know it existed....
My question is in regards to this Testoprop people are raging on about....
1. Can you use it the same way in male greyhounds? 2. Would a male greyhound be more likely to come up in a positive swab due to males having more testosterone? 3. Is there any way to get Testoprop?
The only reason I ask is because I beleive my dog needs a little bit of something to make him "Go" that bit better, he is a good beginner but just needs that little extra something. Is Testoprop the answer since it is legal ?
Thanks
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jul 31, 2013 18:51:17 GMT 10
Hi Andross,
Firstly I’m going to have to disappoint you by telling you that Testoprop is in fact an illegal drug to have in a greyhound male or female if engaged in a race.
The only reason that some trainers have been using this form of male hormone injection and have not been getting a positive swab to date is because this substance is extremely short acting.
The safest dose to use to keep bitches off season is 1/4 of one ml fortnightly of the 50 mg per ml strength, and then timing the intramuscular injection a minimum of five (5) clear days prior to racing.
The same dose could be used on a male greyhound, however other than slightly increasing muscle bulk it would have very little effect if any on the race performance of the greyhound.
As with any S4 drug the injection would have to be dispensed by a registered Veterinarian.
Cheers, Tom
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Post by Frog on May 11, 2014 16:27:04 GMT 10
Testoprop breeding with the bitch later,will it do harm.
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Post by Tom Meulman on May 12, 2014 18:20:43 GMT 10
Hi Frog,
As always whether or not a drug such as this used on a regular basis is going to cause harm in the long term is impossible to predict as it depends not only on the dose rate, but also on the individual greyhound.
All I can say is that most bitches if they are allowed a normal first season, seem to breed on OK without any apparent harm when absolute minimum dosages were used to keep them off season
Cheers, Tom.
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Post by Chris on Jan 18, 2015 17:43:00 GMT 10
Hi Tom,
Have you ever known a bitch to break through Testaprop and come on season? Unfortunately, this has happened to me today and to say I'm disappointed is an understatement. The bitch in question was in good form and because of her age the owners will now retire her for breeding. I was reluctant to use Testaprop in the first place now it seems it's a waste of time if the recommended dosage does not do what it's supposed to do. Thoughts?
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jan 18, 2015 18:35:11 GMT 10
Hi Chris, I'm sorry mate but that is a very disappointing thing to happen just when she is in good form. The problem is no matter how you look at it the drug in Testoprop is an illegal drug to have in a greyhounds system when it's presented for racing, and as such the dosages recommended to be used are the lowest possible to keep most bitches off season and still have a good chance of not getting a positive swab. Unfortunately this time of the year with the increased sunshine triggering a bitches breeding cycle some bitches do break through, and it is a downer for you that it happened to be the one that you are training. The only drug that greyhound racing authorities in Australia allow to be used to keep bitches off season so that they can have a racing career, has the unwanted side effect with many bitches becoming poor chasers, so few trainers are prepared to risk that with the girls they have in training. One of those catch 22 situations. Cheers, Tom
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Post by Oso on Jan 24, 2015 10:33:56 GMT 10
I was under the impression it's permissible to use testoprop as long ad it falls with the 10 ngms threshold on race day?
Cheers
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jan 24, 2015 11:01:36 GMT 10
I was under the impression it's permissible to use testoprop as long ad it falls with the 10 ngms threshold on race day? Cheers Hi Oso, How are you going to judge whether or not you are likely to go over that threshold when doses are accumulative to some extent, and speed of drug elimination from the body depends upon kidney function? All that is too difficult to juge as it also depends upon natural existing levels of testosterone in each individual greyhound. Thresholds are set to take into consideration the maximum likely natural level of testosterone in the body, so that natural excretion of testosterone does not accidentally cause a positive swab. It has not been calculated so that trainers can get away with using this drug without having to worry that it is going to cause a positive swab. While I'm not aware that the technology is being used in the testing of swabs taken from greyhounds, it is however possible to tell the difference between the natural occurring testosterone metabolites in the urine from the metabolites that result from a manufactured testosterone. However due to the cost involved it is very unlikely that this would be done outside of the Olympic Games. Cheers, Tom
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Testoprop
Feb 4, 2015 20:26:48 GMT 10
via mobile
Post by Sean on Feb 4, 2015 20:26:48 GMT 10
I have recently had to have a greyhounds testicles removed is there a form of testosterone replacement allowed. Is it the same as for bitches with a threshold or is all forms of artificial testosterone illegal for male greyhounds !!
Regards
Sean
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Post by Tom Meulman on Feb 4, 2015 20:52:14 GMT 10
I have recently had to have a greyhounds testicles removed is there a form of testosterone replacement allowed. Is it the same as for bitches with a threshold or is all forms of artificial testosterone illegal for male greyhounds !! Regards Sean Hi Sean, Unfortunately even in circumstances such as you find yourself in there is no provision in the Rules to allow the use of this substance. However having said that, there is a maximum allowable quantity of Testosterone in the urine before it is declared a positive swab, and this is based on the highest likely quantity of natural occurring Testosterone. This does then give you some opportunity of using a Testosterone supplement to replace what is not being produced naturally. But please talk to you Vet about both the type of Testosterone best used for this purpose and most importantly the quantity to be used. There may even be some type of Testosterone slow release under the skin implant that could be used for this, and thereby saving you the trouble of weekly or even daily dosing. Cheers, Tom
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Testoprop
Feb 4, 2015 21:09:28 GMT 10
via mobile
Post by Sean on Feb 4, 2015 21:09:28 GMT 10
Thankyou Tom
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