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Post by Joe on May 28, 2011 23:17:38 GMT 10
Tom, I was wondering if you have happened to look into the Greyhound Data Forum lately, in particular the "Hair Testing" topic??? Interested in your comments! Some of the claims being made by several people that would appear to have "vested" interests are bordering on the ridiculous!! For instance they claim that from a sample of the dog's hair they can pinpoint a myriad of maladies including would you believe UNDETECTED INJURIES!!! Not to mention worms including LUNGWORM and Helicobacter Pilori..... Amazing eh?? www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=4¬e=70992&order=&x=0www.greyhound-data.com/knowledge.php?b=3¬e=722847 |
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Post by Ray Jones on May 29, 2011 21:09:40 GMT 10
Looks like a wind up thread  I have heard of hair testing but by what I have read there are no scientific facts available to back up claims made,be interesting to find out more though. |
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Post by jake on Jul 17, 2011 1:07:39 GMT 10
dont knock it till you try it boys
i had a dog here who was all over the shop with a blood profile that i got done practically everything was out of whack
as a last resort i got this hair test done and believe me i would be a massive sceptic but i have to say that the report i got was accurate if a lot of it double dutch to me
i used the herbs that where supplied for 6 weeks and a cpl of small tweaks to his diet and his most recent blood profile is as near as 100 percent it is in my opinion very expensive but for me now well worth the money
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jul 17, 2011 8:09:48 GMT 10
I’m in favour of any scientific testing that can be done to determine or detect health problems that may exist in a racing greyhound.
Unfortunately the current lack of regulation and standardisation of the tests carried out by those laboratories conducting hair testing, does allow for a wide scope of claims to be made based on data that has not been scientifically proven to actually indicate the claims made.
Until such time as a list of substances detected, the quantity or level of the substance detected, or the lack of some particular substances that should have been there at certain levels, and what each substance indicates in regard to the health profile of the greyhound has been established and published, I have no choice but to take the claims made by those doing this type of testing with a grain of salt.
How would it be if a blood sample was sent to a Lab for testing, and specific claims were made as to the health of the greyhound, and no one including your Vet, had any idea as to how these claims about the health of the greyhound had been established?
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by jake on Jul 17, 2011 9:13:51 GMT 10
tom believe me i am the biggest sceptic when it comes to greyhounds the majority of suppliments and claims manufacturers make about products and that are on the market are rubbish and do nothing for the greyhound despite all the claims they make
you saw the blood test results i put up on an earlier thread you in fact gave me a breakdown on what was wrong and they where all over the place liver damage etc etc
the hair test also showed up 2 injuries that the dog did in fact have and several other problems
the herbs i recieved for the dog and a tweeking of his diet have improved the dogs blood profile no end i will post up his latest results in a few days
im bloody delighted as this dog had me going round in circles and running from pillar to post and vet to vet
i have certainly been converted from a non believer to a believer
if it wasnt so expensive i would test every dog that comes in the kennel from here on in but unfortunatly the test cost and the herb costs are pretty expensive,but for me with this particular dog it has been worth the money im just sorry i didnt do it when the problems first appeared,i would have had him back on track 2 months ago
suck it and see gentlemen
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Post by rayjones on Jul 18, 2011 9:04:45 GMT 10
dont knock it till you try it boys i had a dog here who was all over the shop with a blood profile that i got done practically everything was out of whack as a last resort i got this hair test done and believe me i would be a massive sceptic but i have to say that the report i got was accurate if a lot of it double dutch to me i used the herbs that where supplied for 6 weeks and a cpl of small tweaks to his diet and his most recent blood profile is as near as 100 percent it is in my opinion very expensive but for me now well worth the money Lets see a copy of your report so we can make our own minds up,all the research that I have done on hair testing does not give it a very good endorsement,so I,and many others,still want some evidence,not too much to ask for before we part with our hard earned is it. |
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Post by jake on Jul 19, 2011 4:59:06 GMT 10
ray i will put up the results of his most recent blood test in a cpl of days his old tests results along with toms interpretation are below
total protein 65.4 Too high - indicates dehydration
albumin 40.3 Far too high - indicates dehydration and severe stress
globulin 25.1 OK
ag ratio 1.6 Within the preferred range, but due to the high Albumin level is out of balance
alt 162 Far too high - indicates that the liver is currently under severe stress and damaging
ck 302 very high according to vet While not excessively high, it is at the wrong end of the scale, and indicates that the muscle tissue is damaging
ggt 4 Too high and indicates damage in the liver causing the liver to have difficulty regulating bile
hemoglobin 20.6 wrong reading according to vet This level is OK for a racing greyhound
pcv 0.67 wrong reading according to vet Indicates severe dehydration and should be no higher than 62
rbc 8.94 Within the preferred range but out of balance with the Haemoglobin levels and therefore should be a little higher
wbc 3.6 wrong reading according to vet While within the preferred range, it is low and does indicate the immune system is depressed
mcv 74.9 Within the preferred range, but at the high end of the scale and does indicate a requirement for B12/Folic Acid
mchc 30.7 Far too high and does indicate that for the level of available Red Blood Cells there is too much Haemoglobin in the blood, and also indicates the Red Blood Cells are too large
mch 23.0 OK
i re tested him a cpl of weeks after and there was no major improvement in the dog or his readings and a greyhound vet of 30 years had no idea of why the dog was so bad and sent me home and told me to give him 3 asprin a week ...i kid you not!!
it was then i decided to go the hair testing route and put him on the course of herbs prescribed after the hair test
i only spoke to the vet on the phone so i dont have the full read out as yet of his most recent test but he is pretty happy with the latest result and i do know from memory his alt reading is gone down to 26 from a very high 162
ray if you knew me i am the biggest sceptic going mate and if someone else said this to me that they spent ££££ on a hair test for a greyhound and they got this and that discovered in the test and got a bag of herbs to fix him up i would have laughed at them and told them a fool and their money are easily parted
but after my experience with this dog i could only recommend it even though i know i would be laughed at
it is very expensive and not many greyhound men would spend the money but i have a lot of regard for this dog and had to try somethiing to try and get him right
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Post by rayjones on Jul 19, 2011 7:42:07 GMT 10
ray i will put up the results of his most recent blood test in a cpl of days his old tests results along with toms interpretation are below total protein 65.4 Too high - indicates dehydration albumin 40.3 Far too high - indicates dehydration and severe stress globulin 25.1 OK ag ratio 1.6 Within the preferred range, but due to the high Albumin level is out of balance alt 162 Far too high - indicates that the liver is currently under severe stress and damaging ck 302 very high according to vet While not excessively high, it is at the wrong end of the scale, and indicates that the muscle tissue is damaging ggt 4 Too high and indicates damage in the liver causing the liver to have difficulty regulating bile hemoglobin 20.6 wrong reading according to vet This level is OK for a racing greyhound pcv 0.67 wrong reading according to vet Indicates severe dehydration and should be no higher than 62 rbc 8.94 Within the preferred range but out of balance with the Haemoglobin levels and therefore should be a little higher wbc 3.6 wrong reading according to vet While within the preferred range, it is low and does indicate the immune system is depressed mcv 74.9 Within the preferred range, but at the high end of the scale and does indicate a requirement for B12/Folic Acid mchc 30.7 Far too high and does indicate that for the level of available Red Blood Cells there is too much Haemoglobin in the blood, and also indicates the Red Blood Cells are too large mch 23.0 OK i re tested him a cpl of weeks after and there was no major improvement in the dog or his readings and a greyhound vet of 30 years had no idea of why the dog was so bad and sent me home and told me to give him 3 asprin a week ...i kid you not!! it was then i decided to go the hair testing route and put him on the course of herbs prescribed after the hair test i only spoke to the vet on the phone so i dont have the full read out as yet of his most recent test but he is pretty happy with the latest result and i do know from memory his alt reading is gone down to 26 from a very high 162 ray if you knew me i am the biggest sceptic going mate and if someone else said this to me that they spent ££££ on a hair test for a greyhound and they got this and that discovered in the test and got a bag of herbs to fix him up i would have laughed at them and told them a fool and their money are easily parted but after my experience with this dog i could only recommend it even though i know i would be laughed at it is very expensive and not many greyhound men would spend the money but i have a lot of regard for this dog and had to try somethiing to try and get him right I know what you mean about getting a dog right,I have gone through the same thing and TBH my vet was much like yours,he shrugged his shoulders and said "I dont know what to suggest",well if a vet says that what do you do.I emailed Tom with all the info I had on the dog and fair dos after following his advice the dog has come right (gone lame since mind),I was also going to try the hair testing but after doing quite a bit of research on the internet about it on humans the results were pretty poor,hence my scepticism,I am not one to poo poo anything but I like to have plenty of scientific fact before having confidence in anything.Why I am very sceptical with all these "new age" treatments is that I have had a fair amount of different types of treatment for chronic fatigue,had loads of different tests done by natropaths,had all my mercury fillings replaced,totally changed my diet for months to gluten free,had all manner of different herbs and potions,had colonic irrigation  You name it and Ive had it.Result,a lot poorer no better,and I can speak for myself,a dog cant.So I am very sceptical of all different types of testing and treatments,unless I can get proof I tend to go down the traditional root these days.I honestly think dogs and people get better on their own through good diet and their immune system getting back on track but a lot of people put it down to the herbs and potions they have been using and it may just be a coincidence.I do have an open mind but I still need to be convinced ;D |
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Post by jake on Jul 19, 2011 8:51:49 GMT 10
ray you sound like a man of my own heart but the only way to be really convinced is next time you have a sick/underperforming dog in the kennel is to try it im like yourself i think patience is a virtue and more often than not time will fix the majority of problems i have all the gadgets for injury treatment but rarely use them unless i was badly stuck to get a dog ready in a hurry,time will heal better than any machine but this dog qualified at 15 months old and still hasnt run and he is going on 2 years old now so my patience was running pretty thin im not one for suppliments either the vast majority of them on the market are a load of old baloney and do no good what so ever i think the nuts/kibble are one of the biggest problems with the greyhound diet these days i have taken this dog off all nuts/kibble and now i feed rye bread instead of the nuts/kibble veggies,hard boiled eggs,chicken and a little meat and half a spoon of kelp and as soon as i can get a relaible supplier of the bread,the nuts are out the door sorry to hear about the colonic irrigation |
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jul 19, 2011 8:53:20 GMT 10
Hair testing for drugs is a well established and accepted method, and can provide a history of drug use for up to 90 days. It is also able to test for nutrients, minerals, toxic substances and heavy metals, and to a certain extent it can predict curent health based on the existence of specific substances found in the hair. I guess it is only when those providing these tests for greyhound owners and trainers start predicting specific muscle injuries, and start providing remedies at highly inflated prices I get annoyed as I then see this whole procedure as a ripoff. For anyone wishing to download a sample hair testing report from a reputable service provider click HERE. i think the nuts/kibble are one of the biggest problems with the greyhound diet these days Jake you are absolutely spot on about that!! The Importance of CarbohydratesCheers, Tom |
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Post by rayjones on Jul 19, 2011 9:37:52 GMT 10
ray you sound like a man of my own heart but the only way to be really convinced is next time you have a sick/underperforming dog in the kennel is to try it im like yourself i think patience is a virtue and more often than not time will fix the majority of problems i have all the gadgets for injury treatment but rarely use them unless i was badly stuck to get a dog ready in a hurry,time will heal better than any machine but this dog qualified at 15 months old and still hasnt run and he is going on 2 years old now so my patience was running pretty thin im not one for suppliments either the vast majority of them on the market are a load of old baloney and do no good what so ever i think the nuts/kibble are one of the biggest problems with the greyhound diet these days i have taken this dog off all nuts/kibble and now i feed rye bread instead of the nuts/kibble veggies,hard boiled eggs,chicken and a little meat and half a spoon of kelp and as soon as i can get a relaible supplier of the bread,the nuts are out the door sorry to hear about the colonic irrigation Totally agree about the nuts,my dogs seem in better health now they are on a lower protein intake and getting most of their energy requirements from complex carbs and fat.The colonic was an experience,I was less full of shit after it than before,which some may say is a good thing  |
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Post by jake on Jul 21, 2011 0:55:13 GMT 10
ok here goes
pcv 60.2
hb 21.5
rbc 9.0
mchc 32.5
mcv 73.2
mch 23.8
pdw 62.8 (whats this reading?)
mpxi 7.5 (whats this reading?)
wbc 4.18
neuta 2.42
lymph 1.09
monoa .33
eosa .33
pit 131 (whats this reading?)
mpv 13.7 (whats this reading?)
bio chem
total protein 68.4
urea 5.7
alt 49
ck 80
total bili 2.0
sodium 149.8
cholride 110.6
calcium 2.77
albumin 41.1
creatine 123
alp 90
cholesterol 3.1
phos 1.11
potasium 5.18
glob 27.3
ast 24
all in all i think that is pretty good bar a cpl of small things although im no expert
the albumin is higher than what is recommended driving up the total protein count for some reason
what ya think tom?
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jul 21, 2011 6:43:30 GMT 10
Hi Jake,
You are right, overall it looks pretty good and a huge improvement in the dogs health.
The test results you queried:
PWD = Platelet Width Distribution
MPV = Mean Platelet Volume
MPXI = Mean Myeloperoxidase Index (Immune system)
Pit = Pituitary hormone test
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Post by jake on Jul 21, 2011 6:53:14 GMT 10
phew!! thanks tom
i was praying you werent gonna bust my bubble and tell me it was messed up! i have nearly eaten the car of the greyhound racing book over the past 3 months thanks to this dog
so anything you think i can do to sort out the cpl of readings that are still a little out?
going on your preffered range the mchc is a little low
and the neutrophilis is also a wee bit low
in the bio chemistry the albumin is high rising the total protein and the alp looks a bit high along with his cholesterol
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jul 21, 2011 11:44:25 GMT 10
Hi Jake,
I understand that the MCHC is on the low side, but the Haemoglobin and Red blood cell counts are good, so at this point in time I would not be unduly worried about that reading as I do expect that to come good over time as the dog further recovers.
Neutrophils are on the low side, but the Lymphocytes are within reason, so that it is highly unlikely that the imbalance between the two is due to any viral problems, and again I do think that will come good as the immune system recovers further.
The elevated Albumin is more than likely due to the dog still needing to recover a bit more in regard to hydration, and again this should come good now that his diet has been adjusted.
The higher than preferred level of APL is more than likely due to bile problems, and while I’m not in favour of this procedure as it is hard on the dog, in this situation it may be worthwhile to bile the dog out.
The Cholesterol is on the low end of the scale but again nothing to worry about.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by jake on Jul 21, 2011 18:01:15 GMT 10
great news so tom thanks for all your help
i will keep an eye on him over the next month or so but im nearly out of the woods i hope! i will restest him in 4 weeks and hopefully it will be nearly stabalised
i have now got a steady supply of quality rye bread so the nuts/kibble for all the dogs are out the door ..good riddance to them
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You name it and Ive had it.Result,a lot poorer no better,and I can speak for myself,a dog cant.So I am very sceptical of all different types of testing and treatments,unless I can get proof I tend to go down the traditional root these days.I honestly think dogs and people get better on their own through good diet and their immune system getting back on track but a lot of people put it down to the herbs and potions they have been using and it may just be a coincidence.I do have an open mind but I still need to be convinced ;D