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Post by Ian on Jan 20, 2010 19:42:13 GMT 10
Tom - I have been feeding 1 of the complete dry foods along with Human consumption beef for about 4 years. Every(I mean every) blood test I have had done during that time has seen an elevated BUN. Prior to this feeding regime I fed Farrels/Box 1 kibble and never had a problem. My question is could the protein in the diet be causing the elevated BUN ?
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jan 21, 2010 5:58:19 GMT 10
BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) levels are one of the tests normally used to check how well the kidneys are functioning.
This is read in conjunction with the Creatinine levels (another waste product), and if both are high, then it is assumed that kidney function is less than ideal.
In other words, the kidneys for some reason or other are not capable of clearing these waste products out of the blood efficiently, and this than has implications in regard to other functions the kidneys have to perform, such as producing sufficient EPO to maintain good Red Blood Cell and Haemoglobin levels.
This also means that because kidney function is less than ideal, waste products produced by strenuous exercise are not removed from the muscle tissue efficiently, and this can then affect the performance of the greyhound, particularly the ability to finish on strongly.
To answer your question can high BUN blood levels be caused by a diet that is too high in protein? The answer is yes.
The other question that then needs to be asked, if a diet too high in protein can cause elevated BUN levels in the blood, does that mean that a diet too high in protein can cause the kidneys to struggle to remove waste products from the blood? Again the answer is yes.
Do I think that feeding Science Diet (or any other “complete” dry food for that matter) + meat is a good diet for racing greyhounds; the answer is an emphatic no!
Tom
PS. In my opinion the ideal diet for a racing greyhound should contain approximately 25% of quality Protein and this would include egg and milk protein, 45% complex Carbohydrates from wheat and/or rice, and 30% fat from all sources and this would include any oils added to the diet.
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Post by Ian on Jan 21, 2010 9:56:19 GMT 10
Tom - thank you for the reply.
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Post by ray jones on Jun 26, 2010 22:05:11 GMT 10
BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) levels are one of the tests normally used to check how well the kidneys are functioning. This is read in conjunction with the Creatinine levels (another waste product), and if both are high, then it is assumed that kidney function is less than ideal. In other words, the kidneys for some reason or other are not capable of clearing these waste products out of the blood efficiently, and this than has implications in regard to other functions the kidneys have to perform, such as producing sufficient EPO to maintain good Red Blood Cell and Haemoglobin levels. This also means that because kidney function is less than ideal, waste products produced by strenuous exercise are not removed from the muscle tissue efficiently, and this can then affect the performance of the greyhound, particularly the ability to finish on strongly. To answer your question can high BUN blood levels be caused by a diet that is too high in protein? The answer is yes. The other question that then needs to be asked, if a diet too high in protein can cause elevated BUN levels in the blood, does that mean that a diet too high in protein can cause the kidneys to struggle to remove waste products from the blood? Again the answer is yes. Do I think that feeding Science Diet (or any other “complete” dry food for that matter) + meat is a good diet for racing greyhounds; the answer is an emphatic no! Tom PS. In my opinion the ideal diet for a racing greyhound should contain approximately 25% of quality Protein and this would include egg and milk protein, 45% complex Carbohydrates from wheat and/or rice, and 30% fat from all sources and this would include any oils added to the diet. |
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Post by ray jones on Jun 26, 2010 22:23:53 GMT 10
Tom you say that "In my opinion the ideal diet for a racing greyhound should contain approximately 25% of quality Protein and this would include egg and milk protein, 45% complex Carbohydrates from wheat and/or rice, and 30% fat from all sources and this would include any oils added to the diet." But how do I achieve 25% protein 45% carbs and 30% fat from a dogs total ration ? What I really need to know is how many grammes of protein,carbs and fat a dog needs,on average,per kilo of body weight,to make it easier to calculate the diet.Do you see what I am getting at ?
Thanks
Ray
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 28, 2010 21:27:34 GMT 10
Hi Ray, Mate that is good question and unfortunately one that I’m unable to give you a specific answer to. The problem is variables, in other words there are too many variables in all of the food requirements of each individual greyhound that makes it virtually impossible to get it down to a simple formula. Then there are the huge variations in the types of meat that is fed to greyhounds, and the large variations in the fat content of the different types of meat. While you may ask for lean beef, this can vary from 2% fat to 10% fat and still look pretty much the same. The location the meat comes from on the animal causes a considerable difference in the protein content of the meat, such as in ox cheek compared to meat from the hind quarters. Various brands of “kibble” have a different protein and carbohydrate content and a different fat content. Then there is the variation in the individual greyhound’s digestive system depending on the state of health of the greyhound. For instance a greyhound with some liver damage is unable to digest the fat content of the diet efficiently due to the liver not processing Bilirubin as it should and therefore not providing the right amount of bile in the digestive system to break down fatty acids. However to give you some sort of a guide for say a 30 kg greyhound in good health. Meat; preferably beef from the limbs of the animal containing 10% fat about 700 to 750 grams or 24 grams per kg body weight. If the fat content is judged to be lower than 10% it should be made up by adding the appropriate quantity of animal fat not vegetable oils. (Lard is OK Chicken fat is better) Kibble; around 1-1/2 to 2 cups depending on the body condition of the greyhound, of a low protein kibble preferably not more than 15% protein. + A heaped teaspoon of DCP, 4 ml of cod liver oil, 4 ml of Stockgain, a heaped teaspoon of full cream milk powder, a pinch of iodised salt, and a soft boiled egg every second day. + A potassium supplement the night before racing or trailing behind the lure. A simple diet that will cover most requirements of most greyhounds. Vegies? I’m not big on vegies but if you wish to add something along this line, a table spoon of V8 juice should do the trick, and you can always add half a small container of Yakult if you have concerns about the digestive system of the dog or it has bad breath.  Cheers, Tom |
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Post by Gerda on Feb 20, 2015 6:18:43 GMT 10
My 9 1/2 year old greyhound just had her yearly physical. She had bloodwork drawn for a "Senior Profile" which came back normal. They did find a +1 protein level in her urine culture. Is this something to worry about, our Vet is recommending a Protein Creatinine Urine test. She is eating well, drinks a normal amount of water, active for her age and otherwise seems to be in good health. I do give her 1200 mg of Omega 3 each day with her food. We just lost our 6 year old male greyhound to Osteosarcoma, and now worried about our remaining greyhound. What types of conditions would cause the +1 protein level.
Would like to hear another opinion. Gerda
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Post by Tom Meulman on Feb 20, 2015 18:34:07 GMT 10
Hi Gerda,
I can assure you that a +1 protein reading in her urine sample is perfectly normal for any greyhound, and particularly one of her age, and certainly does not cause any concerns in regard to possible health problems.
The fact that the blood profile has come back "normal" should give you every confidence in her current state of health.
Cheers,
Tom
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Post by Chris on Nov 7, 2015 5:41:49 GMT 10
Hi Tom,
I have a dog here that was progressing well in his pre-training and then all of a sudden developed Water Diabetes syptoms after a trial.
The dog was definitely fit enough to run the 400m, so I dismissed that as the cause.
He needed the shot of Pitressen Tanate.
Vet suggested a kidney infection as the probable cause and he went on a course of antibiotics and a 4 week let up.
Vet also suggested that if a blood test was done the dogs BUN would be elevated.
My question is, without regular blood testing, what would be the best way to keep the BUN at a normal level and reduce the chance of the Water Diabetes ever happening again?
Cheers Chris.
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Post by Tom Meulman on Nov 8, 2015 11:12:42 GMT 10
Hi Tom, I have a dog here that was progressing well in his pre-training and then all of a sudden developed Water Diabetes syptoms after a trial. The dog was definitely fit enough to run the 400m, so I dismissed that as the cause. He needed the shot of Pitressen Tanate. Vet suggested a kidney infection as the probable cause and he went on a course of antibiotics and a 4 week let up. Vet also suggested that if a blood test was done the dogs BUN would be elevated. My question is, without regular blood testing, what would be the best way to keep the BUN at a normal level and reduce the chance of the Water Diabetes ever happening again? Cheers Chris. Sorry mate can't provide any worthwhile answer to those questions, because there is no way it can be done without regular blood tests. No magic solution. In regard to believing the greyhound bring fit enough to run any distance means absolutely nothing, as for instance muscle damage in the left thigh will cause those symptoms. A kidney infection being the sole cause? I doubt it as a kidney infection severe enough to cause that result would have had the dog with noticeable symptoms, and most likely too crook to run in the first place. There is always a reason something like that occurs and trainer error is the cause in 99% of cases. Cheers, Tom |
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Post by Chris on Nov 8, 2015 11:34:15 GMT 10
Thanks Tom for your response.
Whilst I agree that Trainer error is the root cause in most instances in this case I cannot see what else I could have done.
The dog trialled well over 350m on the Sunday and trialled 400m the following Friday and went terrible.
He exhibited no signs of any distress after the Sunday trail and in the following days whatsoever.
So it came as a total shock he developed Water Diabetes after the 400m trial.
Thanks Chris.
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Post by Tom Meulman on Nov 10, 2015 5:01:04 GMT 10
Hi Chris,
The most common causes of a greyhound developing water diabetes symptoms after a hard physical effort are:
Diet too high in protein and too low in carbs over time affecting kidney efficiency and function as well as hydration levels.
Undetected muscle damage increasing waste products in the body that the kidneys have to clear, often exacerbated by the diet or excessive use of alkalising agents.
Trainer misreading greyhounds state of health, and/or recovery rate of previous physical effort. Or allowing the greyhound to become distressed prior a hard physical effort due to excessive stimulation by the environment just prior to the physical effort and/or the effects of sudden temperature changes.
Cheers,
Tom
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