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Post by lin on Apr 8, 2011 19:44:12 GMT 10
hi tom i have been lookin into a product called TB 500 thymosin beta 4 peptide and a bloodbooster called redtide these products are very pricey would appreciate your thoughts they are been used on race horses thanx lin
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Post by Tom Meulman on Apr 9, 2011 10:30:55 GMT 10
Hi lin,
There is a lot of interest in the biochemical industry in using stabilised peptide formulations to treat various health problems and to create new drugs.
While the process of stabilisation appears to be solved, however the definite proof that the various peptide formulations actually work as claimed is still some way off.
Personally I’m a little hesitant to pay big dollars for something that has not been tested in double blind studies in humans.
Various companies are quick to jump on a bandwagon particularly when it comes to animal treatment where testing procedures are not as stringent.
While I’m not going to say don’t try these products, for me it is a wait and see process until such time as more proof is available, before I could justify recommending spending the amount of money currently demanded for various peptide based treatments.
Cheers, Tom
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Post by lin on Apr 9, 2011 18:56:47 GMT 10
thanx tom for your reply there is a website that goes more in detail about tb500 www.horseprerace.com and www.tb500.comalso noticed there is currently testing underway in the states by vets there was testing done on humans,the elderly in nursing homes to cure bedsores with good success also in the usa if you have the time to look at these sites your thoughts would be appreciated thank lin
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Post by Tom Meulman on Apr 10, 2011 8:49:36 GMT 10
Hi lin,
The ability to stabilise various peptide formulations is an exciting and brilliant step forward that should lead to the development of new cures for a variety of life destroying illnesses, including cancer.
I have looked at these developments with great interest for the last few years, particularly in relation to improving the performances of racing greyhounds.
However, while some of the products currently marketed for use in thoroughbreds are getting a step closer to achieving some worthwhile results, I still can’t justify their cost when it comes to racing greyhounds.
I also find it interesting that TB 500 thymosin beta 4 peptide has actions very similar to some types of anabolic steroids, while Redtide acts in a manner similar to EPO.
I know I’m being cynical but it is MHO that these formulations are only being marketed to get past the possibility of returning a positive swab to either anabolic steroids or EPO.
Cheers, Tom
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Post by lin on Apr 10, 2011 11:15:06 GMT 10
hi tom thanx for your reply again i find this subject very intresting and i am still trying to understand it fully what do you mean by MHO they are saying that you cant get a positive from these products do you think possibly you could swab thanxagain lin
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Post by Tom Meulman on Apr 10, 2011 13:50:48 GMT 10
Hi lin,
Sorry about that, I meant "it is My Honest Opinion", and no there is no chance of getting a positive swab to peptide based drugs. I guess in years to come it's going to make the Olympic Games interesting to say the least.
Cheers, Tom
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Post by lin on Apr 10, 2011 17:51:19 GMT 10
thank for your reply i will keep a close eye on these sort of things thanx for your honest reply
very intresting subject
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Post by tomas on Jun 12, 2011 8:49:02 GMT 10
hi tom,
I have recently just purchased a bottle of Kynoselen its suppose to be a brilliant product,I have given it to a dog 24 hours before a run 2.5ml into both hind muscle,but the dog showed no increase in performance which i thought he'd have won the race...whats the best times to admin...it and how much do i give..i know its very similiar to tridenosen but i'm confused on how to admin it to get the dog to win...
thanks
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 12, 2011 21:30:13 GMT 10
Hi Tomas,
Firstly, while Kynoselen is an excellent product to aid recovery after a hard run, and it does slightly improve energy levels, it certainly does not add even two lengths to a greyhound’s performance, and certainly does not make a dog win.
I only wish it did.
Secondly, unless you have purchased the French version of this product without Heptaminol, it is an extremely risky product to use prior to a race, as Heptaminol Hydrochloride is highly likely to result in a positive swab. At least here in Australia it certainly does.
If you have the Kynoselen with the Heptaminol it should only be used after a race to aid recovery.
If it is the one without Heptaminol it is best used 48 hours prior to racing as the minimum effective dose of two and a half ml in each back leg may still cause pain in the muscle tissue when racing if given at 24 hours prior.
Cheers, Tom
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Post by tomas on Jun 12, 2011 23:41:26 GMT 10
hi tom...
many thanks for reply what is the purpose of kynoselen...i was led to believe that it improves performance...obvious not....i also have l-carnitine and b12 folic acid but i think the bloods are...or what product is on the market that significantly improves performance...
many thanks tom.. tomas
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 13, 2011 6:48:53 GMT 10
[snip]..........or what product is on the market that significantly improves performance........[snip] Hi Tomas, Therein lies the problem, because unless one is prepared to dope the greyhound with an illicit chemical, there is no such thing! I certainly will never be prepared to give a greyhound anything that will cause it harm for the sake of winning a race. Cheers, Tom
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Post by tomas on Jun 13, 2011 10:14:25 GMT 10
hi tom,
i meant to ask what do you want to use to gain those extra few lenghts I didn't mean something illegal...i mean would you inject a multi-vitamin,dada250,l-carnitine,b12 folic acid,peptides..How many days before a race would you use such products and how much...I just wondered what you may gain that extra length or two in a race...
many thanks tomas
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 13, 2011 16:09:24 GMT 10
If the blood is spot on, the dog is healthy and at its peak of fitness, and it is chasing keenly, there is nothing you can do to gain any lengths in a race.
All the other stuff you mentioned is of no use, and the damage done by the intramuscular injections in most instances nullify the benefit of the substance injected.
The only time any of these may assist the dog is when its health is poor.
Manufacturers want to sell their products, and all the wonderful benefits mentioned by them is mostly bulldust!
Caffeine will make an iffy dog chase harder........ positive swab guaranteed. EPO will increase the blood count, but can cause heart damage if the blood count is too high ........may result in a positive swab. Anabolic steroids will increase muscle strength and volume............positive swab guaranteed.
That is just to mention a few of those “performance enhancing substances”.
If the dog is not fast enough to win races on its own merits.......its not fast enough.
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Post by MATT on May 6, 2015 12:16:55 GMT 10
Hi Tom 4 years later what do you think of the products REDTIDE and TB 500 and would any of these products return a positive schwab,THANK YOU.
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Post by Tom Meulman on May 6, 2015 14:29:32 GMT 10
Hi Matt,
Out of the two products mentioned the most useful one would be TB 500 as its primary function is in tissue repair and cell regeneration, including red blood cells. It should be beneficial for a racing greyhound to aid recovery after a strenuous effort, and that formulation is extremely unlikely to cause a positive swab.
It is just because I'm not aware of any definite proof that these products actually do what it is claimed they do, I find it difficult to recommend their use as being value for money.
Cheers, Tom
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Post by MATT on May 29, 2015 22:39:09 GMT 10
Hi Tom can look at racing analytical services website at explain why and how they would be testing for peptides as I was of the understanding that peptides are only a formulation of amino acids.Thank you.
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 4, 2015 5:16:49 GMT 10
Hi Tom can look at racing analytical services website at explain why and how they would be testing for peptides as I was of the understanding that peptides are only a formulation of amino acids.Thank you. Hi Matt, Like you I'm not aware of any swabbing taking place to detect specific peptide formulations. Could you provide an internet link to the item of concern? Cheers, Tom
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Post by Matt on Jun 4, 2015 20:15:22 GMT 10
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Post by Tom Meulman on Jun 5, 2015 7:13:46 GMT 10
Hi Matt,
It certainly looks like RAS do now swab for the range of peptide based products used by body builders and performance athletes alike. I had considered it extremely unlikely that these products would be able to be detected considering their structure and absorption rate.
Looks like I was wrong. :-(
I will endeavor to investigate just how the test is done, what metabolites are detected, and just how long substances such as the group of GHRP compounds remain able to be detected after administration.
Unfortunately this could take some time as I have sold my house and am in the process of packing up and moving out, and this is taking all my time and energy at the moment. Also because it includes preparing for an extended caravan trip around Australia which we hope to undertake during the next 12 months.
Cheers, Tom
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Post by Matt on Jun 10, 2015 22:37:14 GMT 10
thank you tom im eagerly awaiting for your reply
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